Draft Discussion List Guidlines/subscriber review

[Michelle Steinberg]

Superb response Wayne.  Really well put


VOTE today to change the world tomorrow.
REGISTER AND VOTE!!
www.servicearizona.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wayne Murray" <wayne at xnar.com>
To: <central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 8:48 PM
Subject: RE: Draft Discussion List Guidlines/subscriber review


> Vicky,
>
> "if someone is removed for Inflamatory speech, who will remove them?  Is 
> it
> the board?"
>
> This was the most difficult thing the committee had to answer. Thank you 
> for
> the opportunity to explain this, if you review the proposal there are ways
> of "addressing" what is prohibited and discouraged.  The committee made a
> commitment that we would be instruments of peace and promote 
> understanding,
> through co-operation and tolerance.  We decided that we would not support
> the use of coercion or force in our proposal.  In the form of censorship,
> judgments or penalties and punishments.  We wanted to remain a community
> discussion forum.  So as neighbors we decided that we would help each 
> other
> learn how to communicate and discuss sometimes topics that are difficult 
> to
> do when opinions differ greatly. Taken off line, reminders, and the reply
> button that gives us a chance to give it a second thought.  Individuals 
> who
> did not act civil would be ignored and would probably stop posting, or we
> would all be able to block them and not hear them anyway.  We each have 
> the
> power to remove them from our own computers, the subject line and sender
> address enables "you" to decide that level.
>
> We do not join the list serve to make enemies, but to increase our 
> tolerance
> and understand of one another.  This will not be without its ups and 
> downs,
> but we should all become better communicators by watching each others
> interactions, helping and learning.
>
> Force and coercion is not seen as a effective instrument when neighbors 
> are
> having a conversation.  And not what we as a committee wished to promote.
>
> Hope this answers your question and look forward to seeing you at the
> meeting on Thursday.
>
> W
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info
> [mailto:central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info] On Behalf Of 
> vcampo1 at cox.net
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:14 PM
> To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
> Subject: Re: Draft Discussion List Guidlines/subscriber review
>
> I just wanted to chime in and say thanks to all who were involved in 
> putting
> together the listserv guidelines.  I think this is great work, and I think
> the guidelines laid out here are more than adequate.
>
> I do have one obesrvation/question/suggestion:  If someone has the power 
> to
> remove postings that contain inflamatory comments, then isn't it true that
> the list is, in fact, monitored?  I'm wondering if we shouldn't change the
> language in the guidelines to say that the list is monitored for 
> inflamatory
> speech only.  Also, if someone is removed for Inflamatory speech, who will
> remove them?  Is it the board?
>
> That's the only thing I really see, and I'm not sure it's such a big deal.
> Again, thanks for all the time and energy that was invested in this.
>
> Vicky
>
>
> ---- thisrocks at mac.com wrote:
>> I like the phrase: "Listserve is Self Moderated"
>>
>> Thank you all for your hardwork.
>> -Aaron
>>
>> On Sep 30, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Michelle Steinberg wrote:
>>
>> Hi Maureen:
>> Just my thoughts on the issues you raise
>> I believe the phrase "all topics" makes it clear that we can share
>> information about anything that anyone in the neighborhood thinks
>> might be interesting to the others on the listserve.  To limit it to
>> just Coronado issues, we would have to determine what those are, list
>> them somewhere and require that people only speak to those issues.
>> Way too restrictive, I think.  There are so many things going on that
>> we can and should be sharing with one another that could impact us
>> from any number areas, it should not be limited.
>>
>> We are advocating for a self-monitored system and under the heading
>> "Moderator" we define that, It can certainly be changed to "Listserve
>> is Self Moderated"
>>
>> The whole point of this exercise was to provide neighbors with a set
>> of guidelines that they would agree to if they chose to participate
>> on the listserve.   We will always retain the right and the ability
>> to remove people if we cannot stop the flow of "prohibited" language
>> such as discriminatory language or criminal behavior but we believe
>> that people will accept the guidelines, understand them and act
>> accordingly.
>>
>> Setting forth these guidelines gives participants an understanding of
>> their personal responsibility when posting without squelching the
>> free flow of good ideas, important information, and the opportunity
>> to get to know one another without a third party watching,
>> controlling and dictating how we communicate.  The purpose behind the
>> creation of the guidelines was to set some broad parameters, giving
>> people a wide berth to express themselves in a positive, neighborly
>> manner.
>>
>> I don't think we have to be punitive to get people to adhere to the
>> guidelines, so providing for some sort of enforcement automatically
>> sets a negative tone.  We really wanted to create something that
>> would give people the responsibility to police themselves and each
>> other, take ownership and create buy in.  That's the way to
>> encouraging good behavior, not with threats and punishment.
>>
>> and something has changed, we now have written guidelines that set
>> forth our standards for use of the listserve with expectation that we
>> will all follow them.
>> Michelle
>>
>> VOTE today to change the world tomorrow.
>> REGISTER AND VOTE!!
>> www.servicearizona.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Maureen Rooney
>> To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
>> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 9:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: Draft Discussion List Guidlines/subscriber review
>>
>> For what it is (or isn't) worth, here are some specific comments on
>> the proposed guidelines:
>>
>> - "This listserv is open to all topics." Isn't the topic Coronado...
>> the neighborhood... as broad as that may be? (but as opposed to world
>> politics, just as one example)
>> - Message size: 2 mg may be fine with the server, but that's huge if
>> you are dial-up (some people still are. I think that even 1 mg would
>> be a problem for them.)
>> - The heading "moderator" is doublespeak. Sorry. But if there is no
>> moderation in the proposed guidelines, which seems to be the case,
>> then just say it. Unmoderated.
>> - I don't understand the "never post unsubscribe messages to the
>> list" rule that's suggested. How is that "unfair to others" exactly?
>> Why wouldn't we want to know that people are leaving, and why, if
>> they choose to share their reasons?
>> - "We prohibit..." and "Never" show up in several places. Yet as
>> Roobin points out, there is no way to enforce that language.
>>
>> In general, it seems that the guidelines use a lot of words to say
>> that nothing has changed. If a subscriber doesn't like what's
>> happening, they are free to leave. That hardly seems neighborly--Maureen
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jo Clute
>> To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
>> Sent: 9/29/2006 11:04:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: Draft Discussion List Guidlines/subscriber review
>>
>> Roobin,
>>
>> What were your specific suggestions?
>>
>> Please share those with us also..
>>
>> Everyone was invited to be on the committee.
>>
>> This proposal incorporated EVERY single suggestion we, the comittee,
>> recieved from everyone who provided input
>>
>> we also sent the proposal out and again asked for futher input. And
>> refined it again.
>>
>> The result is what we have shared with everyone in "public"
>> everything has been disclosed.
>>
>> thank you for your input........?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: roobin
>> To: Central City Discussion
>> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: Draft Discussion List Guidlines/subscriber review
>>
>> Observations:
>> 1. This proposal is very similar to the existing system.
>> 2. The Delete key is still your only control.
>> 3. There are no provisions for enforcement.
>> 4. Some of the most strident opposition to Moderators were on this
>> guideline committee, and without enforcement self-moderation equals
>> no moderation.
>> 5. Those on the listserve any amount of time have seen many numerous
>> posts to "play nice" with one another.  If past requests for self
>> moderation were unsuccessful, why would this one be?
>>
>> R.
>>
>> PS: If the committee is receiving comments on this proposal in
>> private, please share them.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Wayne Murray
>> To: Gcna-Members
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:02 AM
>> Subject: Draft Discussion List Guidelines/subscriber review
>>
>> Draft Proposal from Discussion List Committee for Subscriber review,
>> comment and input.
>>
>>
>>
>> History: Concerns have been raised as to the present discussion list
>> format.  If you are a subscriber you are aware of these concerns.
>>
>> Action:  The board of the GCNA appointed a committee to "look into
>> the problems" and recommend "solutions".
>>
>> Where we are now:  Attached is a draft of the proposed format of the
>> discussion list. It is open for comment, suggestions, and changes.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is ironic that the committee was made up in part by those who were
>> viewed as being unique to the "problem".  So it has been interesting
>> to discover how and why things occurred, as well as discuss
>> resolution and prevention.  We spent a lot of time selecting from the
>> archive those times when "concern" may have been in order,
>> discovering patterns and coming up with solutions.  We also searched
>> the internet for examples of similar discussion lists and their rules
>> and codes of conduct.  Additionally, we set up an e-mail box
>> whatevercomments at cox.net  to receive comments from individuals.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The Discussion List has a unique role to play in the Coronado
>> Neighborhood.  It is an entry point for new residents.  A place for
>> those who can't attend or don't like meetings. A place to see if and
>>
>> how you may want to become more involved.  A place to engage in
>> exciting politics, passionate issues, and information exchange.  We
>> thought it very important that it operate in real time, as that is
>> what most of the threads were all about.  It would be impossible to
>> operate it through delayed postings.  We also thought it very
>> important that subscribers be empowered to moderate the information
>> coming into their own computers,  but at the same time not moderate
>> what someone else may desire to have come into theirs.  We hope that
>> along with giving you that responsibility,  we have provided you with
>> the tools to customize the list to serve to your standards. Safety
>> and caution with regard to personal information, on this list serv,
>> originates and ends with you.  We hope we have given you a guide for
>> that also.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> When you are reviewing the Discussion List proposal keep in mind what
>> we have preserved.  It is only one part of the information resource
>> available to Coronado. Others exist, also.   If you prefer a more
>> structured format we invite you to rediscover the Discussion Forum
>> at  http://www.gcna.info/forum.htm  as an alternate to the discussion
>> list.  Or you may join the Announcement Group, if that is what you
>> would prefer.  See below:
>>
>>
>>
>> Joining the Announcements Group
>>
>>
>>
>> The announcements group is a usergroup that allows you to receive
>> announcements in your email from administrators of the Forums.  This
>> group can be joined voluntarily.  You can also remove yourself at any
>> time.
>>
>>
>>
>> To join the group:
>>
>>   .     Log In to the Forum.
>>
>>   .     Click Usergroups from the menu at the top of the screen.
>>
>>   .     Under Current Memberships, select Announcements.
>>
>>   .     Click View Information.
>>
>>   .     On the following screen, click Join Group.
>>
>>
>>
>>   Once you have joined, an email will go to a moderator.  The moderator
>>
>>   will approve your membership, and you will then be able to receive any
>>
>> announcements that are sent out by the administrator or GCNA Board
>> Member.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The Discussion List Committee is looking for your input into this
>> proposed solution. Again the proposal is attached here as a word
>> document.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is our goal to maintain the list serve as a unique part of the
>> Diversity offered to the residents of Coronado and beyond.
>>
>>
>>
>> Discuss this online or send comments to Whatevercoments at cox.net
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you in advance for your interest in making this a better place.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Collect responsibility...don't give it away"
>>
>>
>>
>> Submitted by Discussion List Serve Committee Members
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> --Note--
>> By replying to this email, you will be sending to the entire list.
>> Be sure to change the recipient of the email if you do not want to post
>> to the central-city-discuss list.
>>
>> --Disclaimer--
>> The messages exchanged on this list in no way reflect the official
>> position of the Greater Coronado Neighborhood association.  This e-mail
>> list is maintained by an outside source, with no financial tie, or
>> editorial directive from the Greater Coronado Neighborhood Association.
>>
>> To maintain your subscription, visit http://www.gcna.info/list
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> --Note--
>> By replying to this email, you will be sending to the entire list.
>> Be sure to change the recipient of the email if you do not want to post
>> to the central-city-discuss list.
>>
>> --Disclaimer--
>> The messages exchanged on this list in no way reflect the official
>> position of the Greater Coronado Neighborhood association.  This e-mail
>> list is maintained by an outside source, with no financial tie, or
>> editorial directive from the Greater Coronado Neighborhood Association.
>>
>> To maintain your subscription, visit http://www.gcna.info/list
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> --Note--
>> By replying to this email, you will be sending to the entire list.
>> Be sure to change the recipient of the email if you do not want to post
>> to the central-city-discuss list.
>>
>> --Disclaimer--
>> The messages exchanged on this list in no way reflect the official
>> position of the Greater Coronado Neighborhood association.  This e-mail
>> list is maintained by an outside source, with no financial tie, or
>> editorial directive from the Greater Coronado Neighborhood Association.
>>
>> To maintain your subscription, visit http://www.gcna.info/list
>> _______________________________________________
>> --Note--
>> By replying to this email, you will be sending to the entire list.
>> Be sure to change the recipient of the email if you do not want to post
>> to the central-city-discuss list.
>>
>> --Disclaimer--
>> The messages exchanged on this list in no way reflect the official
>> position of the Greater Coronado Neighborhood association.  This e-mail
>> list is maintained by an outside source, with no financial tie, or
>> editorial directive from the Greater Coronado Neighborhood Association.
>>
>> To maintain your subscription, visit http://www.gcna.info/list
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> --Note--
> By replying to this email, you will be sending to the entire list.
> Be sure to change the recipient of the email if you do not want to post
> to the central-city-discuss list.
>
> --Disclaimer-- 
> The messages exchanged on this list in no way reflect the official
> position of the Greater Coronado Neighborhood association.  This e-mail
> list is maintained by an outside source, with no financial tie, or
> editorial directive from the Greater Coronado Neighborhood Association.
>
> To maintain your subscription, visit http://www.gcna.info/list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> --Note--
> By replying to this email, you will be sending to the entire list.
> Be sure to change the recipient of the email if you do not want to post
> to the central-city-discuss list.
>
> --Disclaimer-- 
> The messages exchanged on this list in no way reflect the official
> position of the Greater Coronado Neighborhood association.  This e-mail
> list is maintained by an outside source, with no financial tie, or
> editorial directive from the Greater Coronado Neighborhood Association.
>
> To maintain your subscription, visit http://www.gcna.info/list
>