Shady Side of Livability
Dorothy Hurd
hurd at eappreferred.com
Wed Aug 30 16:06:46 PDT 2006
Greg, thanks for that very reasonable response regarding native plants and
shade trees. It is so nice to have people present different points of view
in a respectful, thoughtful manner. And thanks for the good information
that is pertinent to our neighborhood. - Dot
-----Original Message-----
From: central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info
[mailto:central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info] On Behalf Of
central-city-discuss-request at gcna.info
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:00 PM
To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
Subject: central-city-discuss Digest, Vol 8, Issue 26
Send central-city-discuss mailing list submissions to
central-city-discuss at gcna.info
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of central-city-discuss digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Add to agenda (Jo Clute)
2. Re: Meeting Agenda (Jo Clute)
3. RE: Add to agenda (Don Mertes)
4. Fwd: Phoenix EAA Sept 2nd Sat 10-noon meeting (Dennis Mac Leod)
5. Re: Add to agenda (GCNA Webmaster)
6. RE: Add to agenda (Don Mertes)
7. SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY (Dennis Mac Leod)
8. RE: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY (Wayne Murray)
9. SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ? (Greg Simmons)
10. Re: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ? (Greg Simmons)
11. Re: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ? (Ivana Olson)
12. RE: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ? (Wayne Murray)
13. Re: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY (Vita4832 at wmconnect.com)
14. RE: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ? (Steve Procaccini)
15. RE: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ? (Wayne Murray)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:13:36 -0700
From: "Jo Clute" <josepi at doitnow.com>
Subject: Add to agenda
To: <central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Message-ID: <0aab01c6cb9f$3ac67100$6401a8c0 at JoClute>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Don
would you please address in the next meeting on how the Board, taking it
upon its self, to start a moderation committee either conflicts,
contradicts, or is consistent with the following disclaimer that appears at
the bottom of each and every message and is there from the very moment
someone joins the List Serve..
Thank you
--Disclaimer--
The messages exchanged on this list in no way reflect the official position
of the Greater Coronado Neighborhood association. This e-mail list is
maintained by an outside source, with no financial tie, or editorial
directive from the Greater Coronado Neighborhood Association.
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:19:13 -0700
From: "Jo Clute" <josepi at doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: Meeting Agenda
To: <central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Message-ID: <0ae301c6cba0$03d90d00$6401a8c0 at JoClute>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Don,
I think you are missing the point of the request for the time, the topic
seems clear.
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Mertes
To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:15 AM
Subject: RE: Meeting Agenda
Hi Wayne,
The time is fine.. Can I PLEASE list something other than "whatever"
??
:) Don
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info
[mailto:central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info] On Behalf Of Wayne Murray
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 8:14 AM
To: Gcna-Members
Subject: Meeting Agenda
Don,
If there is space left on the agenda I would like 4 minutes and 47
seconds anytime. If this agenda is full I can wait. You can list the item
as "whatever".
Thank you
W
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
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Be sure to change the recipient of the email if you do not want to post
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--Disclaimer--
The messages exchanged on this list in no way reflect the official
position of the Greater Coronado Neighborhood association. This e-mail
list is maintained by an outside source, with no financial tie, or
editorial directive from the Greater Coronado Neighborhood Association.
To maintain your subscription, visit http://www.gcna.info/list
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:00:25 -0700
From: "Don Mertes" <donmertes1 at cox.net>
Subject: RE: Add to agenda
To: <central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Message-ID: <0b7e01c6cba5$c4aa3810$dae6e344 at D9HRH071>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Jo,
Great point and an awesome first topic for the ListServ Committee !!
This is definitely contradictory to what I understand, so some clarification
would be welcomed.
As I understand it, this list was started as a gift to the GCNA by Kevin
Porter, our webmaster. Kevin used his own funds and his own time to create
this vehicle for the benefit of all its members. He explained to our past
president, Christina that the "gift" part (which is the $100/yr for server
space and $30/yr for the domain name) was for one year only and after that,
the GCNA woul be responsible for the fees incurred to keep this list going.
She agreed, and as of last year GCNA has taken over ownership & paid the
neccessary monies to continue this list.
I suspect that this disclaimer was added originally by Kevin and has
simply never been modified. In all the time that I've been a subscriber to
this forum, I've never even read it until today !! Maybe if Kevin has
occasion to read this thread, he can inject facts instead of my suspicions.
Kevin (along with Ron Roman & Wayne Murray) has also expressed an interest
in serving on this committee, so there's another three great volunteers and
if you don't get definitive answers prior to the first committee meeting,
I'm sure you can get them then.
Thanks for pointing this out, Jo !! We are all working to make this
association the best its ever been and passionate folks like you are the
reason that it's happening.
Much appreciated,
:) Don
_____
From: central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info
[mailto:central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info] On Behalf Of Jo Clute
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 12:14 PM
To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
Subject: Add to agenda
Don
would you please address in the next meeting on how the Board, taking it
upon its self, to start a moderation committee either conflicts,
contradicts, or is consistent with the following disclaimer that appears at
the bottom of each and every message and is there from the very moment
someone joins the List Serve..
Thank you
--Disclaimer--
The messages exchanged on this list in no way reflect the official position
of the Greater Coronado Neighborhood association. This e-mail list is
maintained by an outside source, with no financial tie, or editorial
directive from the Greater Coronado Neighborhood Association.
-------------- next part --------------
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 14:42:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Mac Leod <dennismacleod at yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Phoenix EAA Sept 2nd Sat 10-noon meeting
To: Coronado <central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Message-ID: <20060829214209.41970.qmail at web32401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
"jstack6 at juno.com" <jstack6 at juno.com> wrote: From: "jstack6 at juno.com"
<jstack6 at juno.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 02:07:23 GMT
To: jstackeaa at yahoo.com
Subject: Phoenix EAA Sept 2nd Sat 10-noon meeting
Phoenix EAA,
Our monthly meeting is this Saturday, Sept 2nd from 10 am to noon at
the SRP Project drive admin building. Come and bring a friend.
At this meeting will will tell about some recent EV displays we
had. The first was our fun weekend at the Harkins Theater CamelVeiw5 That
showed the new movie Who Killed the Electric Car. About 15 of us all saw it
on Friday night. Then on Saturday Sam and his brother Mario got to park
their Evs in front of the box office and tell a lot of people the real
facts.
The second Event was a display my wife Elaine and I did at the 2006
MensLuxuryToyShow at the new Cardinals stadium. We told about the worlds
fastest vehicles and how they sold over 100 of them at $100K each in less
than 3 weeks at Tesla. We had large glossy pictures of many of these new
Evs like George Clooney with his Tango, the Venturi Fetish and one of the
Tesla. Many of the visitor to the show said I was wrong when I told them
some of the times and facts about the NEW EV?s.
We will have the large glossy pictures and talk about the 3 new EV
released this year. The Tesla, the eBox scion EV and the newest SMART EV
from hybrid technologies that just started taking orders
www.hybridtechnologies.com SMART Lithium EV
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=1084 eBox SCION
http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1 Tesla
We also want to look back at one of the best EV makers Solectria and
talk about their vehicles and what they are doing today. They made the Geo
Force, Geo Metro, E-10 and Sunrise EV. They had 100 mile range on lead aid
and 200 with NiMH. The set a record of over 300 miles on one charge in the
Tour De Sol Event in 1996. Where did they go ? What happened to James
Worden their president ? Maybe we could get a new feature movie made about
this world leading EV.
Jim Stack, 480-659-5513
________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 14:55:22 -0700
From: "GCNA Webmaster" <webmaster at gcna.info>
Subject: Re: Add to agenda
To: <central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Message-ID: <002201c6cbb5$d5266460$047e0193 at amers.ibechtel.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I would like to clarify the history behind this list.
This was originally hosted by a prior Coronado resident using his employer's
servers (Pangeatech). The list was called "gcna-discuss". This is where
the disclaimer originated.
With the setup of the gcna.info domain name (about 4 years ago), I took on
the list, and the disclaimer remained. The GCNA board decided to rename it
to "central-city-discuss". Starting in 2005, GCNA paid for the domain name.
In February 2006, I stopped hosting the site (and list), and paid for a 1
year fee to have it hosted. GCNA agreed to pay the hosting fee going
forward.
The site and list was not originally hosted, nor funded by GCNA. However,
now that it has changed hands, I'm sure the disclaimer is due to be
re-visited.
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Mertes
To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: RE: Add to agenda
Hi Jo,
Great point and an awesome first topic for the ListServ Committee !!
This is definitely contradictory to what I understand, so some clarification
would be welcomed.
As I understand it, this list was started as a gift to the GCNA by
Kevin Porter, our webmaster. Kevin used his own funds and his own time to
create this vehicle for the benefit of all its members. He explained to our
past president, Christina that the "gift" part (which is the $100/yr for
server space and $30/yr for the domain name) was for one year only and after
that, the GCNA woul be responsible for the fees incurred to keep this list
going. She agreed, and as of last year GCNA has taken over ownership & paid
the neccessary monies to continue this list.
I suspect that this disclaimer was added originally by Kevin and has
simply never been modified. In all the time that I've been a subscriber to
this forum, I've never even read it until today !! Maybe if Kevin has
occasion to read this thread, he can inject facts instead of my suspicions.
Kevin (along with Ron Roman & Wayne Murray) has also expressed an interest
in serving on this committee, so there's another three great volunteers and
if you don't get definitive answers prior to the first committee meeting,
I'm sure you can get them then.
Thanks for pointing this out, Jo !! We are all working to make this
association the best its ever been and passionate folks like you are the
reason that it's happening.
Much appreciated,
:) Don
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info
[mailto:central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info] On Behalf Of Jo Clute
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 12:14 PM
To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
Subject: Add to agenda
Don
would you please address in the next meeting on how the Board, taking
it upon its self, to start a moderation committee either conflicts,
contradicts, or is consistent with the following disclaimer that
appears at the bottom of each and every message and is there from the
very moment someone joins the List Serve..
Thank you
--Disclaimer--
The messages exchanged on this list in no way reflect the official
position of the Greater Coronado Neighborhood association. This e-mail
list is maintained by an outside source, with no financial tie, or
editorial directive from the Greater Coronado Neighborhood Association.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
_______________________________________________
--Note--
By replying to this email, you will be sending to the entire list.
Be sure to change the recipient of the email if you do not want to post
to the central-city-discuss list.
--Disclaimer--
The messages exchanged on this list in no way reflect the official
position of the Greater Coronado Neighborhood association. This e-mail
list is maintained by an outside source, with no financial tie, or
editorial directive from the Greater Coronado Neighborhood Association.
To maintain your subscription, visit http://www.gcna.info/list
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:10:45 -0700
From: "Don Mertes" <donmertes1 at cox.net>
Subject: RE: Add to agenda
To: <central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Message-ID: <0bd501c6cbb7$fa55d2a0$dae6e344 at D9HRH071>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thank you Kevin... I knew that you could bring a more factual rendition to
the last few years !!
:) Don
_____
From: central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info
[mailto:central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info] On Behalf Of GCNA Webmaster
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 2:55 PM
To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
Subject: Re: Add to agenda
I would like to clarify the history behind this list.
This was originally hosted by a prior Coronado resident using his employer's
servers (Pangeatech). The list was called "gcna-discuss". This is where
the disclaimer originated.
With the setup of the gcna.info domain name (about 4 years ago), I took on
the list, and the disclaimer remained. The GCNA board decided to rename it
to "central-city-discuss". Starting in 2005, GCNA paid for the domain name.
In February 2006, I stopped hosting the site (and list), and paid for a 1
year fee to have it hosted. GCNA agreed to pay the hosting fee going
forward.
The site and list was not originally hosted, nor funded by GCNA. However,
now that it has changed hands, I'm sure the disclaimer is due to be
re-visited.
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Mertes <mailto:donmertes1 at cox.net>
To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: RE: Add to agenda
Hi Jo,
Great point and an awesome first topic for the ListServ Committee !!
This is definitely contradictory to what I understand, so some clarification
would be welcomed.
As I understand it, this list was started as a gift to the GCNA by Kevin
Porter, our webmaster. Kevin used his own funds and his own time to create
this vehicle for the benefit of all its members. He explained to our past
president, Christina that the "gift" part (which is the $100/yr for server
space and $30/yr for the domain name) was for one year only and after that,
the GCNA woul be responsible for the fees incurred to keep this list going.
She agreed, and as of last year GCNA has taken over ownership & paid the
neccessary monies to continue this list.
I suspect that this disclaimer was added originally by Kevin and has
simply never been modified. In all the time that I've been a subscriber to
this forum, I've never even read it until today !! Maybe if Kevin has
occasion to read this thread, he can inject facts instead of my suspicions.
Kevin (along with Ron Roman & Wayne Murray) has also expressed an interest
in serving on this committee, so there's another three great volunteers and
if you don't get definitive answers prior to the first committee meeting,
I'm sure you can get them then.
Thanks for pointing this out, Jo !! We are all working to make this
association the best its ever been and passionate folks like you are the
reason that it's happening.
Much appreciated,
:) Don
_____
From: central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info
[mailto:central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info] On Behalf Of Jo Clute
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 12:14 PM
To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
Subject: Add to agenda
Don
would you please address in the next meeting on how the Board, taking it
upon its self, to start a moderation committee either conflicts,
contradicts, or is consistent with the following disclaimer that appears at
the bottom of each and every message and is there from the very moment
someone joins the List Serve..
Thank you
--Disclaimer--
The messages exchanged on this list in no way reflect the official position
of the Greater Coronado Neighborhood association. This e-mail list is
maintained by an outside source, with no financial tie, or editorial
directive from the Greater Coronado Neighborhood Association.
_____
_______________________________________________
--Note--
By replying to this email, you will be sending to the entire list.
Be sure to change the recipient of the email if you do not want to post to
the central-city-discuss list.
--Disclaimer--
The messages exchanged on this list in no way reflect the official position
of the Greater Coronado Neighborhood association. This e-mail list is
maintained by an outside source, with no financial tie, or editorial
directive from the Greater Coronado Neighborhood Association.
To maintain your subscription, visit http://www.gcna.info/list
-------------- next part --------------
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:19:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Mac Leod <dennismacleod at yahoo.com>
Subject: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY
To: NorthGlenSquareNeighborhood
<northglensquareneighborhood at yahoogroups.com>, Coronado
<central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Message-ID: <20060829221910.15236.qmail at web32414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
infoweb at newsbank.com wrote: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:25:26 -0400
Subject: Requested NewsBank Article
From: infoweb at newsbank.com
To: dennismacleod at yahoo.com
Paper: Arizona Republic, The (Phoenix, AZ)
Title: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY - TO SURVIVE HEAT ISLAND, WE MUST LOOK BACK,
LEARN FROM OASIS WE ONCE WERE
Author: Jon Talton, The Arizona Republic
Date: July 9, 2006
Section: Opinions
Page: V5
Drive south on 15th Avenue from Indian School Road some hot evening. Roll
the windows down. A little south of Thomas, you'll feel a dramatic
cooling.It comes from being enveloped in Encanto Park, with its old shade
trees and grass. The experience is more illuminating than any binder full
of consultants' reports on the urban heat island.
The need for shade held center stage at the recent Orpheum Theatre meeting
on downtown priorities. Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon sees it as essential to
making the center city a livable neighborhood. But, as he told me, "when we
do this we can learn things that can be applied around the city."
Don't stop there. Every city in the region needs a cooling strategy.
I know some of our newcomers are traumatized Midwesterners who claim to
like it the hotter the better. In reality, the increasing temperatures
present a clear and present danger to Greater Phoenix's future. We can't
get started soon enough in taking action.
Phoenix as it existed around 1955 was, almost by accident, a model desert
city. It was smaller and sustainable, with a population of about 300,000
and the federally funded Salt and Verde river dam system in place.
The core of the city was an oasis of shade trees, grass and landscaping.
Moving out, one found places such as my great aunt's acreage near Seventh
and Glendale avenues, a sanctuary guarded by huge trees. Next were rings of
citrus groves and, on Baseline, the magical Japanese Flower Gardens.
Surrounding all this were miles of farm fields.
Outside the Salt River Project service area were low-density villages in
the desert. Sunnyslope was one example. They were not so much
self-consciously desert landscaped as living with the desert, as yet
another buffer for the oasis city.
Not surprisingly, the city was cooler for longer periods in the year, and
it cooled down at night in the summer. Monsoon storms came through with far
less violence and more rain. The air was much cleaner.
Unfortunately, this city design was purely accidental and did not survive
sprawl and misguided efforts at water conservation and desert authenticity.
As a result, the average low temperature in Phoenix has risen 10 degrees
over the past 50 years. The city is getting hotter and staying hotter
longer. (We also lost the hard frosts that once helped keep down the
mosquito population).
This means more than a summer surface temperature of 140 degrees. Heat
islands cause greater energy use, air pollution, heat illness and
mortality. Things could get much worse thanks to global warming, drought
and sustained higher energy prices.
We're going to need all the right moves to avoid trouble: new technology
for cool paving, cool roofs and green buildings. We're going to need
buildings with real awnings.
We're also going to need grass and shade trees (and I don't mean just
paloverdes).
I know this sounds odd if you just rolled in from Dayton and look forward
to never having to mow the rocks in your yard. But a solid rock lawn is
terrible for the heat island, as well as being inauthentic.
There's no single way for a large city to exist in this inhospitable
wilderness. So many parts of town can benefit from north Scottsdale-like
desert landscaping -- if they can afford it. Dirt ground with desert plants
can also work.
At the same time, we need to establish "oasis zones" in the older parts of
our cities, especially central Phoenix. Here water should be used to
maintain grass and shade trees. This investment goes hand-in-hand with
water conservation technologies and techniques elsewhere.
It will not only help ease the heat island and cut energy use but also
reduce carbon dioxide levels.
Encanto Park could be expanded onto the current paved wasteland of the
state fairgrounds, with a land swap to send the fair elsewhere in Phoenix.
Large, ugly swaths of banked private land could be leased for trees,
including the property surrounding Steele Indian School Park.
But more people than Gordon will need to get it. The city recently
landscaped part of Second Avenue downtown with rocks and paloverdes. This
is not only ahistorical to this street but guarantees it is not inviting to
walkers.
Across Central Avenue, the city is clear cutting the blocks between
Fillmore and Roosevelt streets as efficiently as a carpet-bombing campaign,
even though the land may sit empty for years. This ensures a ghastly no
man's land between Roosevelt Row and downtown -- and yes, it will be hot.
One more thing: The city's existing shade is at risk from the drought.
Please water your trees this week.
Reach Talton at jon.talton at arizonarepublic.com.
Author: Jon Talton, The Arizona Republic
Section: Opinions
Page: V5
Copyright (c) The Arizona Republic. All rights reserved. Reproduced with the
permission of Gannett Co., Inc. by NewsBank, inc.
---------------------------------
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:25:00 -0700
From: "Wayne Murray" <wayne at xnar.com>
Subject: RE: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY
To: <central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Message-ID:
<20060830042505.JVPS21457.fed1rmmtao07.cox.net at fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I know people don't care for palm trees. There are actually 4 large native
stands in the state, and numerous more in the Sonoran desert south of the
boarder. I have landscaped my rentals with palms, sunlight rarely reached
the ground, all of the walls and roofs are shaded during daytime hours, and
the cooler air is trapped under the trees during the day. We trim twice a
year to keep the birds out, and the dead off. This costs less than a weekly
yard service, or monthly water bills. But a little more than dead grass and
parked cars. Palms need water once a month in the summer and I turn the
systems off in the winter, no water, low sewer charges (figured on a percent
of the winter bill).
W
_____
From: central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info
[mailto:central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info] On Behalf Of Dennis Mac Leod
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 3:19 PM
To: NorthGlenSquareNeighborhood; Coronado
Subject: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY
infoweb at newsbank.com wrote:
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:25:26 -0400
Subject: Requested NewsBank Article
From: infoweb at newsbank.com
To: dennismacleod at yahoo.com
Paper: Arizona Republic, The (Phoenix, AZ)
Title: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY - TO SURVIVE HEAT ISLAND, WE MUST LOOK BACK,
LEARN FROM OASIS WE ONCE WERE
Author: Jon Talton, The Arizona Republic
Date: July 9, 2006
Section: Opinions
Page: V5
Drive south on 15th Avenue from Indian School Road some hot evening. Roll
the windows down. A little south of Thomas, you'll feel a dramatic
cooling.It comes from being enveloped in Encanto Park, with its old shade
trees and grass. The experience is more illuminating than any binder full of
consultants' reports on the urban heat island.
The need for shade held center stage at the recent Orpheum Theatre meeting
on downtown priorities. Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon sees it as essential to
making the center city a livable neighborhood. But, as he told me, "when we
do this we can learn things that can be applied around the city."
Don't stop there. Every city in the region needs a cooling strategy.
I know some of our newcomers are traumatized Midwesterners who claim to like
it the hotter the better. In reality, the increasing temperatures present a
clear and present danger to Greater Phoenix's future. We can't get started
soon enough in taking action.
Phoenix as it existed around 1955 was, almost by accident, a model desert
city. It was smaller and sustainable, with a population of about 300,000 and
the federally funded Salt and Verde river dam system in place.
The core of the city was an oasis of shade trees, grass and landscaping.
Moving out, one found places such as my great aunt's acreage near Seventh
and Glendale avenues, a sanctuary guarded by huge trees. Next were rings of
citrus groves and, on Baseline, the magical Japanese Flower Gardens.
Surrounding all this were miles of farm fields.
Outside the Salt River Project service area were low-density villages in the
desert. Sunnyslope was one example. They were not so much self-consciously
desert landscaped as living with the desert, as yet another buffer for the
oasis city.
Not surprisingly, the city was cooler for longer periods in the year, and it
cooled down at night in the summer. Monsoon storms came through with far
less violence and more rain. The air was much cleaner.
Unfortunately, this city design was purely accidental and did not survive
sprawl and misguided efforts at water conservation and desert authenticity.
As a result, the average low temperature in Phoenix has risen 10 degrees
over the past 50 years. The city is getting hotter and staying hotter
longer. (We also lost the hard frosts that once helped keep down the
mosquito population).
This means more than a summer surface temperature of 140 degrees. Heat
islands cause greater energy use, air pollution, heat illness and mortality.
Things could get much worse thanks to global warming, drought and sustained
higher energy prices.
We're going to need all the right moves to avoid trouble: new technology for
cool paving, cool roofs and green buildings. We're going to need buildings
with real awnings.
We're also going to need grass and shade trees (and I don't mean just
paloverdes).
I know this sounds odd if you just rolled in from Dayton and look forward to
never having to mow the rocks in your yard. But a solid rock lawn is
terrible for the heat island, as well as being inauthentic.
There's no single way for a large city to exist in this inhospitable
wilderness. So many parts of town can benefit from north Scottsdale-like
desert landscaping -- if they can afford it. Dirt ground with desert plants
can also work.
At the same time, we need to establish "oasis zones" in the older parts of
our cities, especially central Phoenix. Here water should be used to
maintain grass and shade trees. This investment goes hand-in-hand with water
conservation technologies and techniques elsewhere.
It will not only help ease the heat island and cut energy use but also
reduce carbon dioxide levels.
Encanto Park could be expanded onto the current paved wasteland of the state
fairgrounds, with a land swap to send the fair elsewhere in Phoenix. Large,
ugly swaths of banked private land could be leased for trees, including the
property surrounding Steele Indian School Park.
But more people than Gordon will need to get it. The city recently
landscaped part of Second Avenue downtown with rocks and paloverdes. This is
not only ahistorical to this street but guarantees it is not inviting to
walkers.
Across Central Avenue, the city is clear cutting the blocks between Fillmore
and Roosevelt streets as efficiently as a carpet-bombing campaign, even
though the land may sit empty for years. This ensures a ghastly no man's
land between Roosevelt Row and downtown -- and yes, it will be hot.
One more thing: The city's existing shade is at risk from the drought.
Please water your trees this week.
Reach Talton at jon.talton at arizonarepublic.com.
Author: Jon Talton, The Arizona Republic
Section: Opinions
Page: V5
Copyright (c) The Arizona Republic. All rights reserved. Reproduced with the
permission of Gannett Co., Inc. by NewsBank, inc.
_____
All-new
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43256/*http:/advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbe
ta> Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:11:34 -0700
From: "Greg Simmons" <simmonsgreg at onemain.com>
Subject: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ?
To: <central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Message-ID: <002501c6cbf2$c3ea8a90$0c0110ac at your82b4d82fe2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
This is interesting article (and thanks to Dennis for posting it) and
undeniably true that the city does not have enough shade and that cooling
landscapes are needed. But I also found it interesting there is only
indirect mention of exceeding our precious water resources in the desert
south west. We are rapidly running out of water in the state. Too much
growth and not enough water (Agriculture is a heavy user and so are the big
cities) The very same newspaper (AZ-Republic) just published a 7 part
series about six threatened river systems in the state and yesterday's news
reports that the year's unusually heavy summer rains are not expected to
ease the 11th year of a drought.
This journalist's notion of what the history of this landscape is
interesting as well, the history of this area is native sonaran desert with
desert adapted trees and shrubs, perennial rivers (e.g., Gila, Salt) not
dry river beds and people (Anasazi, O'odham) that were well adapted to the
environment, planting crops in time with the summer rains. So I agree with
much of this but I'm partly left with the feeling that this author has
something against desert plant materials. They are good for Scottsdale
xeriscapes and for central Phoenix, drought adapted trees like Palo Verde
are needed along with all the other shade trees we can plant desert or other
wise, common sense suggests we should try and pick trees adapted to this
environment for the shade they provide and the evapotranspiration through
the leaves (Arizona ash anyone? that is a native species that has moderate
water needs and is a great shade tree).
Greg
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:18:00 -0700
From: "Greg Simmons" <simmonsgreg at onemain.com>
Subject: Re: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ?
To: "Greg Simmons" <simmonsgreg at onemain.com>,
<central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Message-ID: <002c01c6cbf3$a9a08a80$0c0110ac at your82b4d82fe2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Oh yeah we could really claim back a lot of potential shade and potential
oasis spots if we could get folks interested in closing alleys and we could
plant palm trees in those alleys Wayne.....
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Simmons
To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:11 PM
Subject: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ?
This is interesting article (and thanks to Dennis for posting it) and
undeniably true that the city does not have enough shade and that cooling
landscapes are needed. But I also found it interesting there is only
indirect mention of exceeding our precious water resources in the desert
south west. We are rapidly running out of water in the state. Too much
growth and not enough water (Agriculture is a heavy user and so are the big
cities) The very same newspaper (AZ-Republic) just published a 7 part
series about six threatened river systems in the state and yesterday's news
reports that the year's unusually heavy summer rains are not expected to
ease the 11th year of a drought.
This journalist's notion of what the history of this landscape is
interesting as well, the history of this area is native sonaran desert with
desert adapted trees and shrubs, perennial rivers (e.g., Gila, Salt) not
dry river beds and people (Anasazi, O'odham) that were well adapted to the
environment, planting crops in time with the summer rains. So I agree with
much of this but I'm partly left with the feeling that this author has
something against desert plant materials. They are good for Scottsdale
xeriscapes and for central Phoenix, drought adapted trees like Palo Verde
are needed along with all the other shade trees we can plant desert or other
wise, common sense suggests we should try and pick trees adapted to this
environment for the shade they provide and the evapotranspiration through
the leaves (Arizona ash anyone? that is a native species that has moderate
water needs and is a great shade tree).
Greg
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:24:52 -0700
From: "Ivana Olson" <hazey_marie at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ?
To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
Message-ID: <BAY114-F225073874E637B7F3435DB8D3E0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
I still like the idea of the palm trees in the traffic circle myself.
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Greg Simmons" <simmonsgreg at onemain.com>
Reply-To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
To: "Greg Simmons" <simmonsgreg at onemain.com>,
<central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Subject: Re: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:18:00 -0700
Oh yeah we could really claim back a lot of potential shade and potential
oasis spots if we could get folks interested in closing alleys and we could
plant palm trees in those alleys Wayne.....
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:26:26 -0700
From: "Wayne Murray" <wayne at xnar.com>
Subject: RE: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ?
To: <central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Message-ID:
<20060830052628.MHDF6235.fed1rmmtao06.cox.net at fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The fight back SW, current fight back, has a program for closing alleys and
money to do it. Anyone interested should go to the meeting.
Unfortunately, APS has chopped down some of my alley palms. Remember not to
plant palms that would grow within 15 feet of the overhead wires.
Plentiful good dates on the date palms now. Help yourself.
W
_____
From: central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info
[mailto:central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info] On Behalf Of Greg Simmons
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:18 PM
To: Greg Simmons; central-city-discuss at gcna.info
Subject: Re: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ?
Oh yeah we could really claim back a lot of potential shade and potential
oasis spots if we could get folks interested in closing alleys and we could
plant palm trees in those alleys Wayne.....
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg <mailto:simmonsgreg at onemain.com> Simmons
To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:11 PM
Subject: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ?
This is interesting article (and thanks to Dennis for posting it) and
undeniably true that the city does not have enough shade and that cooling
landscapes are needed. But I also found it interesting there is only
indirect mention of exceeding our precious water resources in the desert
south west. We are rapidly running out of water in the state. Too much
growth and not enough water (Agriculture is a heavy user and so are the big
cities) The very same newspaper (AZ-Republic) just published a 7 part
series about six threatened river systems in the state and yesterday's news
reports that the year's unusually heavy summer rains are not expected to
ease the 11th year of a drought.
This journalist's notion of what the history of this landscape is
interesting as well, the history of this area is native sonaran desert with
desert adapted trees and shrubs, perennial rivers (e.g., Gila, Salt) not
dry river beds and people (Anasazi, O'odham) that were well adapted to the
environment, planting crops in time with the summer rains. So I agree with
much of this but I'm partly left with the feeling that this author has
something against desert plant materials. They are good for Scottsdale
xeriscapes and for central Phoenix, drought adapted trees like Palo Verde
are needed along with all the other shade trees we can plant desert or other
wise, common sense suggests we should try and pick trees adapted to this
environment for the shade they provide and the evapotranspiration through
the leaves (Arizona ash anyone? that is a native species that has moderate
water needs and is a great shade tree).
Greg
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:55:03 EDT
From: Vita4832 at wmconnect.com
Subject: Re: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY
To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
Message-ID: <492.82c7905.322700c7 at wmconnect.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
FYI: The Water Conservation Office of the City of Phoenix has three
excellent
booklets on desert landscaping:
Landscape Plants for the Arizona Desert
Xeriscape Landscaping with Style in the Arizona Desert
Landscape Watering by the Numbers
These are available free. Call 256-3370 or 261-8367 or order online at:
conservation at phoenix.gov
Vita
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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:56:37 -0700
From: "Steve Procaccini" <steve at maps4u.com>
Subject: RE: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ?
To: <central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Message-ID: <WMD14103E50218459e97B788751EC22353 at maps4u.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Wayne - I know of one native palm grove at Palm Canyon in the Kofa Nat'l
Wildlife Refuge in Yuma County.
Where are the other 3? Just curious. Thanks, Steve P.
PS - and here I thought you were a spinster, but you have dates galore! ; )
This message was checked by MailScan for WorkgroupMail.
www.workgroupmail.com
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:03:14 -0700
From: "Wayne Murray" <wayne at xnar.com>
Subject: RE: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ?
To: <central-city-discuss at gcna.info>
Message-ID:
<20060830170317.TMRP2704.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net at fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
There are two additional out by lake pleasant.
Most of the native Sonoran fans are in California and east side of Baja.
W
_____
From: central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info
[mailto:central-city-discuss-bounces at gcna.info] On Behalf Of Steve
Procaccini
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:57 AM
To: central-city-discuss at gcna.info
Subject: RE: SHADY SIDE OF LIVABILITY ?
Hi Wayne - I know of one native palm grove at Palm Canyon in the Kofa Nat'l
Wildlife Refuge in Yuma County.
Where are the other 3? Just curious. Thanks, Steve P.
PS - and here I thought you were a spinster, but you have dates galore! ; )
This message was checked by MailScan for WorkgroupMail.
www.workgroupmail.com
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